[Cob] Coblist Digest, Vol 9, Issue 130

[jacques marmen]

if its of any help, I see no talk of passive solar heat and proper windows
here! Should this not be held in consideration? Our house which is in the
process of being built was calculated ( conservatively ) to require 1.5
cords of wood per winter, without accountint for solar mass and hydronic
floor heating. That in a climate which we averaged at -15 which is again a
over-compensative approach. Then again, we're outsulating with slipstraw
and wool.

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 3:00 PM, <coblist-request at deatech.com> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: Insulative values: Frank, Mike, Janet, Sky, Chris,
>      others? (Sky Orndoff)
>   2. Re: Insulative values: Frank, Mike, Janet, Sky, Chris,
>      others? (Janet Standeford)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 23:17:11 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Sky Orndoff <skyorndoff at yahoo.com>
> To: coblist at deatech.com
> Subject: Re: [Cob] Insulative values: Frank, Mike, Janet, Sky, Chris,
>        others?
> Message-ID:
>        <1320387431.47765.YahooMailClassic at web161206.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> First, congratulations Melissa and Tys for finishing your place.? I'm sure
> it's gorgeous.?
>
> Second, dear  Mike, Frank, Chris, me, Janet, and everyone:?
>
> Thank you all for discussing this topic.? I don't think until recently
> insulation and airflow have been well covered here, and we're the people
> who need to be talking about it.? I believe that some of the most
> environmentally aware and friendly building styles are exactly the kinds
> being advertised by our friend Frank.? They're not "natural," but they are
> comfortable and save energy, and over a house's lifetime, energy savings
> adds up--much more so than embodied energy in materials.?
>
> A mis-designed house, even a small one, will burn a lot of fuel to heat
> itself, and if its a woodstove, will burn
>  a lot more wood than it would take to build a larsen truss house.? You
> could easily burn that much wood in only one winter!? The tiny houses
> typically built with cob are a great niche for those of us kooky and
> wonderful enough to dream and build and live in them.? For the rest of
> affluent North America, what Frank is proposing is exactly the right path.?
> And even us dreamers should improve our cob's thermal performance learning
> from those techniques.? You've done your homework, Janet, and your house is
> well designed on the right track, but many of us are still worried you'll
> be cold.
>
> For the record, Frank, I was assuming a 2x4 or 2x6 stud wall with
> fiberglass batts, installed averagely, with a mediocre vapor barrier.? Here
> they even claim 2x6 stud framing to be "environmentally friendly" because
> of their "excellent" r-19 insulation (which discounds thermal bridgeing of
> studs, plates, and windows.? I don't think you're getting your respectible
> r-30 to 60 walls with batts. ?  What is the insulation you're using, and
> how thick are the walls? Tell us more!
>
> A full 60 percent of landfill mass in the US and Canada is paper waste,
> which could be converted into cellulose wall and ceiling insulation at a
> very low environmental and monetary cost (we'd be pulling insulation from
> the waste stream and all we have to do is grind it up and add fire
> retardants) and we could be doing nice thick insulated walls in all the
> buildings we intend to heat.? I am sold on the Larsen truss technique Frank
> is talking about.? In fact, I'm building one right now and I think it's a
> great method.
>
> Needing less building acclimatization is one of the easiest ways we can
> decrease fossil fuel use.? The best way to avoid heating
>  and cooling buildings in most of our country's climates is primarily by
> insulation, and only secondarily through thermal mass.? I believe that due
> to high thermal retention and therefore low heating costs, the
> highly-insulated, low-infiltration rate houses Frank is talking about are
> probably the best way to go for most people.? Especially when combined with
> those impressively low infiltration rates.? If we in natural building can
> learn from pioneers in conventional building (r-60 walls and 100 attic with
> .5 ach under 50 pascals--that's fantastic!) we will end up with a much
> happier population and planet, with fewer of our dollars needlessly burning
> fuels just to heat or the atmosphere.? Frank, please tell us more about
> this technique you're advocating!
>
> Thanks all,
>
> Sky
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 10:23:06 -0700
> From: Janet Standeford <janet.standeford at gmail.com>
> To: coblist at deatech.com
> Subject: Re: [Cob] Insulative values: Frank, Mike, Janet, Sky, Chris,
>        others?
> Message-ID:
>        <CAMwY=YMenDXenMVvVnHwPF6TyhqiHLXwneMFC=3oN㐛∫䕐@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I am so sorry Sky but I think the Larson Truss technique would be good for
> straw bale. Not Cob.
>
> Many homes in Europe and other places are cob and they don't seem to be
> using so much wood. They are comfortable as well.
>
> Don't forget thermal mass is key here and that is what my house will have.
>
> Trying to turn cob into a hybrid isn't what this site is about as far as I
> am aware.
>
> It is to encourage the building of cob homes with permits.  This entails
> satisfying code, not changing everything into something that doesn't
> resemble cob anymore.
>
> I applaud Tys and anyone else who has the fortitude and guts to see this
> goal through.
>
> Don't worry about me being cold. I have kept warm on very little heat with
> far less insulation or thermal mass here.
>
> It's good to have walls that breathe Sky. It is not good to be in an air
> tight coffin.
>
> Janet
>
>
> ------------------------------
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> End of Coblist Digest, Vol 9, Issue 130
> ***************************************
>