[Cob] self-building - ovens vs. dwellings - SEE ORIGINAL POSTS BELOW

[Ocean Liff-Anderson]

Regarding my concerns about being instructed properly vs. just  
"guessing" how to build...

Please note in my post (see entire thread copied below):  I didn't  
say cob was an inferior building technique.  In fact, I believe if  
properly built, cob is superior to most other building techniques.

However, the coblist is prone to off-the-cuff comments and heresay  
speculation, grounded more in cyberspace than on the real, solid ground!

The recent post pondering "why cob contains straw" is just the icing  
on the cake.

Many who post here clearly have had no training in cob building, and  
I want to impress upon these folks - DON'T BUILD a structure which  
will house humans or animals without being trained by someone who  
knows how to design, site, and properly build with cob!  If done  
improperly the risk of catastrophic failure is very real, and very  
dangerous.

The coblist can be a useful tool for networking among cob builders,  
and it can be interesting for those who are curious.  But it is not a  
substitute for HANDS ON training.

If you want to build a cob home, please find a way to take a course  
by Cob Cottage Company (Linda & Ianto, Oregon), Groundworks (Becky  
Bee, Oregon), Emerald Earth (Michael Smith, California), Cobworks  
(Mayne Island, BC), Kleiwerks (Asheville, NC), or any other person  
who has significant experience building structures.

Ask to see your instructor's portfolio of completed structures, or  
better yet, talk to people who have successfully built homes after  
taking their courses.  And if you are short on money, almost every  
organization listed above will take on work-trade volunteers.

Blessings,
Ocean Liff-Anderson
Cob builder, restaurateur
http://www.wildfirecorvallis.com



On Jul 15, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Peter Kaulback wrote:

> As with round barns as well, see this page
> http://www.thebarnjournal.org/round/efficiency.html
>
> I like these circular wall designs as well, and recently the work  
> of Ray
> Cirino with his playhouse design
> <http://people.tribe.net/raycirino/photos> was quite inspiring.
>
> Peter Kaulback
>
> joe r dupont wrote:
>> THAT IS WHY YOU BUILD CIRCULAR WALLS.. MUCH STRONGER.
>> On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:28:54 -0400 Peter Kaulback
>> <peter at thesilverwheel.ca> writes:
>>> Certainly with any structure using load bearing exterior walls there
>>> is the risk of collapse, whatever the materials used for the wall  
>>> there
>>> is always a risk of injury or death. If a wall is a few hundred  
>>> pounds
>>> or a few thousand the risk is there. Dig a well and see the  
>>> effects of
>>> the earth alone.
----------------------
>>>> MY POST:
>>>>
>>>> It is possible to build an oven with very little instruction,  
>>>> especially since Kiko Denzer has outlined in excruciating detail  
>>>> all the information necessary in his book, Build Your Own Earth  
>>>> Oven.
>>>>
>>>> An oven is a simple dome structure, and once fired most of the  
>>>> straw "cokes" (burns to carbon without any flame) and no longer  
>>>> yields strength to the oven.  The domed-nature of the oven is  
>>>> supported in part by the lightly-fired clay center, which now  
>>>> resembles a weak porcelain.
>>>>
>>>> Building a dwelling or other structure where people will be  
>>>> inside, under a wall-supported roof is another story  
>>>> altogether.  I would not recommend it.  The roofing and walls of  
>>>> a cob building can weight several thousand pounds, and while  
>>>> your oven's collapse may ruin dinner, a building's collapse will  
>>>> definitely ruin your day.
>>>>
>>>> People have been killed when improperly built cob walls failed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have never taken a workshop nor have I talked to anyone else  
>>>>> who built
>>>>> with cob in person and yet I have built an exceptional cob oven  
>>>>> all
>>>>> because of the confidence instilled by the work of Kiko Denzer,  
>>>>> Becky
>>>>> Bee, Lanto Evans, and many people on this very list. I have  
>>>>> never built
>>>>> any building from scratch before, food yes, structures no. Then  
>>>>> again
>>>>> there haven't been any given in this area either :/
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter Kaulback
>>>>>
>>>>> Ocean Liff-Anderson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> this question reveals much that needs to be learned...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> how can you be "ready to cob" if you don't know why straw is  
>>>>>> included
>>>>>> in the mix???  just where have you learned about cob, and from  
>>>>>> whom
>>>>>> did you learn it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in order to mix and build with cob, you need to know several  
>>>>>> things -
>>>>>> quality of clay, the right kind of sand, the best quality  
>>>>>> straw, and
>>>>>> the right mix of all three, along with water to mix them into  
>>>>>> cob.  i
>>>>>> can't believe that there isn't any straw in the state of georgia.
>>>>>> what do farmers do for their animal bedding?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> don't build with cob until you take a workshop, from someone  
>>>>>> skilled
>>>>>> in cob building, who can then explain all you need to know - the
>>>>>> proper way to make a good cob mix, a good foundation, a good  
>>>>>> roof.
>>>>>> if you are planning to build a structure which will be  
>>>>>> inhabited, you
>>>>>> must do so safely, or face the possibility of a catastrophic  
>>>>>> failure!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sorry to be the harbinger of doom and gloom,
>>>>>> ocean
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 12, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Damon Howell wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is the purpose of straw in a cob mix? Nobody seems to  
>>>>>>> "really
>>>>>>> know" what the role of straw is anyway. Is it there to hold  
>>>>>>> the cob
>>>>>>> together while the wall is still wet (like a free form), or  
>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>> the wall from crumbling incase it cracks later (like  
>>>>>>> reenforcement),
>>>>>>> or to allow air/water to move through the wall (because straw is
>>>>>>> hollow)? The problem is that nobody knows the reason they  
>>>>>>> used straw
>>>>>>> because they didn't leave behind notes on how and why they  
>>>>>>> built that
>>>>>>> way, and it's been a while since they lived here. What do  
>>>>>>> they do in
>>>>>>> Africa? Do they use straw "in" the cob? Can any other plants  
>>>>>>> be used
>>>>>>> as tensile such as long grasses? I'm almost ready to start  
>>>>>>> cobbing
>>>>>>> but straw is just unavailable in GA right now, and what straw  
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> is has a very high price on it. I'm not willing to pay three  
>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>> the price for it if there's a substitution. I would love to  
>>>>>>> just go
>>>>>>> out in the field and get some tall grass if it would suffice.  
>>>>>>> It's a
>>>>>>> heck of a lot cheaper!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chow,
>>>>>>> Damon Howell
>>>>>>> North Georgia, US
>>>