Cob: RE: Insulation

[Kelly, Sean]

John,

  I am not an expert, or even a novice builder.  I don't pretend to
understand the complexities of what building in cob requires, but I am
willing to learn.  I appreciate your response, but your wording in places
makes me sad.  Maybe it is just more of the problem with email.. you can't
see the body language that lets you know it isn't meant as harshly as it
sounds.  Oh well...  What can you do?  I guess I could get off the list or
not post to it again, but that would be thin skinned, so anyway...

>No - an air space is NO insulation - that is to say, when your outer cob
wall 
>freezes so will your inner wall. 

Isn't this how double paned windows work?  I will admit I don't understand.
Just wondering.

>IMHO this is one of the less estute ideas to be suggested on the list - I 
>mean, its enough expense & work to build ONE cob wall - why build two
>simply to insulate your building - bad idea !!!!!!!

Well, it wasn't my idea... I was suggesting using that aerogel someone was
talking about as an insulative layer in the cob when this was mentioned as
another alternative (to defend my own intelligence).  I am finding that I
love cob.  I love the look, the idea of living in earth, the thought of
being able to live without a mortgage on 'my' home, the thought that my home
will contribute minimally to environmental concerns, and the fact that my
home won't sway in a stiff breeze as does the stick house I live in now.
The problem I am also finding is that it would seem to be a bad idea to
build with it in a cold area (where daytime temps are regularly below
freezing for many winter months, and for a few weeks in February, the
nighttime temp gets to -20F or so), as the thermal mass effect should cause
the structure to be pretty danged cold in the winter, if not as cold as the
outside.

>It would help - straw is VERY good insulation

So what is the difference between building one massive wall or 2 slightly
less massive ones with a space in between (stuffed with straw or sawdust or
whatever to keep it insulated?)

>- BUT at the risk of being pedantic - this double cob wall idea is really
too 
>dumb to even consider
>- OHHHH how opinionated .......!!!!!

This is the part that makes me sad... oh well.  You are entirely entitled to
your opinion...

<<I want to build a structure (or perhaps even structures in the north-east 
<<somewhere (NY or New England), but I have these nagging concerns that I
<<will just end up building a chilly vault (at least in the winter).

>Not if you make it passive solar with some sort of heating backup ( wood 
>burning is pretty low tech & (dare I use the s word) ssssustainable ).  

Well, of course it would be heated, and passively solar, but as Holly
pointed out there are many places in the NE that get cloudy in late October
and clear up some time in April or May.  I am also concerned that the
thermal mass works just as well in the other direction, no?  Suck the heat
right out into the chilly outdoors (Well, of course that process takes a
while, so maybe it doesn't work that way... again, I know very little.  I
have read the Becky Bee book, seen a presentation at The Farm in TN, and am
looking forward to going to a workshop here in Colorado in August - I am
more than willing to learn, but likewise won't accept your answers as
blatant truth without some proof or at least comparing them to other answers
I get).

>Think simple - put a winter coat of bales around the cold side of your
building 
>& plaster it with good old mud... no sweat, easy & low cost low labor.

Thank you John.  I have heard this answer before, (from you even I believe)
but I just don't like the idea of stacks of strawbales around the outside of
my home.  Maybe if plastered as you suggest it wouldn't be so bad, but I am
trying to find other methods as well - weigh all the options before jumping.
I am planning for the future right now.  I live in Colorado (where all those
solar beings should live... sun 6/7 days a week it seems...)
, and am looking at moving to the Northeastern portion of the country in 3-5
years to build my cob home (gotta wrap up what I am up to here), so I have
lots of time to do workshops, research, and get ideas of what I am going to
do.

You are the guy who is working on an universal cob code, yes?  (maybe I'm
completely off base... apologies if that is the case, and could the real cob
code person step forward?)  How goes the battle?  Where do you stand?  What
can we (the cobbing community) - or even just myself (to avoid speaking for
the good coblist folk) do to help you in your fight for truth, justice and
the cobbing way?

Well, I have made quite a mess on this list with my one little post, haven't
I??? :-)  Glad to see all the discussion though.

Sean